Scooter forum purpose

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Scooter forum purpose

Postby pedman » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:42 pm

There seems to be some confusion as to the purpose of the "Scooter Forum." It was not created to divide 50cc riders. Rather, the opposite. Some riders like both (mopeds and scooters), some riders like one and are indifferent to the other, and some riders prefer one and dislike the other. Please do not waste your typing trying to "convert" a rider to your preference. Let me lay out the arguments pro and con:

Moped riders say:
Scooters are unsafe because of there high center of gravity
Scooters are unsafe because of their small wheels
Scooters have too much plastic to make them easy to maintain and repair
Scooters are cheaply made and are not very durable
Scooters are unattractive

Scooter riders say:
Mopeds are unsafe because they are too slow
Mopeds have no style

I'm sure there are other reasons riders choose one over the other. However, let's look at what they have in common:

Mopeds and Scooters:
Are inexpensive vehicles to purchase and operate
Are a challenge to modify to get increased performance
Do not require titles (in some states)
Do not require registration (in some states)
Do not require insurance (in some states)
Do not require a license (in some states)

For the U.S. riders the Department of Transportation (DOT) defines a moped and then the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) sets emission standards. Soon the EPA will be implementing stricter emission standards which may change which companies and products are available to the U.S. consumer. The result could be no more 2 cycle engines which would change the 50cc market drastically.

The legal definition of a "moped" is different in each state. The MRA is a national 50cc riders organization and was created to help 50cc riders exchange information and establish organized rides. This was the purpose of creating the scooter forum. To help scooter riders exchange information and organize 50cc rides. This site does not intend to create a SRA (Scooter Riders Association) until a majority of the states create a separate legal definition for the 50cc scooter. Until then scooters are "legally" mopeds, but, technically scooters.

This scooter forum will be available so long as it is used for scooter riders to exchange information and organize rides. Otherwise, it serves no useful purpose to the MRA and will be eliminated. If scooter riders want to organize a sanctioned ride and exclude true mopeds, I'm sure the moped riders will respect the request. And, on the reverse if moped riders want to sanction a ride and exclude scooter riders they will expect the rule to be respected also. However, this was not the intention when the moped riders voted to "give a scooter forum a try." The intent was as stated above, to give scooter riders an opportunity to exchange information and organize rides.

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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Cyberian » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:43 pm

pedman -

"For the U.S. riders the Department of Transportation (DOT) defines a moped "

Would you have a link or any reference to that definition/regulation?
I would really like to look that up and compare it to the NY DMV definition of a "Moped".

Thanks for this post, and for creating the "Scooter Forum"!
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby mountainmoped » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:15 pm

The DOT definition won't match any of the states definitions because the damn politicians all feel like they need to reinvent the wheel.
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Re: re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Cyberian » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:41 pm

mountainmoped wrote:The DOT definition won't match any of the states definitions because the damn politicians all feel like they need to reinvent the wheel.

Bryan -

You are probably right. I don't know if any two states have the exact definition of a Moped.
NY is odd because it only addresses top speed. No mention of displacement, pedals, gearbox, or HP>
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby steamboat » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:05 am

Hey Cyberian. FYI Jim.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DO ... pkg002.pdf Motor-driven cycle is defined as a motorcycle with a motor that produces 5-brake horsepower or less.NHTSA Office of Chief counsel has determined that mopeds and motor-driven bicycles fall into this category.49 U.S.C. 30112 requires all motor vehicles (including motorcycles and motor-driven cycles), tocomply with all applicable FMVSS in effect on their date of manufacture. 49 U.S.C. 30165 providesthat whoever violates Section 30112 or regulations issued thereunder, will be subject to a civilpenalty not to exceed $1,100 for each violation, or $925,000 for any related series of violations. The
FMVSS are found at Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations Part 571 (49 CFR 571).
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Cyberian » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:18 pm

Thanks, jim -
I read over that link briefly, but I really need to read it more closely, as I'm considering a traditional Moped or a decently built one of the new Scooters - TnG, Baron, Kymco, etc.
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby sixtoeightfeet » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:25 pm

I'm really glad MRA has a scooter forum. The moped guys are the greatest. However, the speed limit of my moped limited my range greatly. As long as I stayed in my own neighborhood, the 'ped was great. However, to travel to the next town, I had to take heavier-traffic streets and highways where my 'ped (even with its 70cc cylinder and Biturbo pipe) was simply too slow to be safe. Hence, I defected. The change from 'ped to scooter opened up whole new destinations to me, and was the right move for me. However, it would be nice if more of renegade, devil-may-care attitude of mopedders could be seen among the scooter crowd. Maype this new, MRA scooter forum is the answer!
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Tab » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:43 am

It's even more important in states like Texas since we have a "Certified Moped List" to deal with. Next year, if Tomos doesn't put the catalyzed A-55 on the Targa line-up and can't get the Revival/Arrow/Streetmate on the list, there will be no "classic mopeds" legal to sell here. Further more, all the classic bikes before 1990 are no longer on the list and will not be added.
This change was absolutely neccessary.
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby steamboat » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:57 am

Hey Tab, are all currently registered mopeds allowed to continue being used? We call it grandfathered in VA. Jim
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Tab » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:09 am

Yes, they can be.

But...in and around 1984, Texas past a law that required titles and inspections. 99% of the people that owned them back then said "Screw it." Since they were never titled, they now can't be titled without a sales reciept and MCO. The only way to do it is to "buy" a title from a out-of-state titling company, or plead for help from an out-of-state dealer that can "register" your bike in their state and "sell" you the bike and registration.

When I first titled my Magnum back in 2001, it was easy...then they came out with a list. Since then, its easier to get a golf cart titled for on road use than it is for a real moped to get titled.

I just want to scream...
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Cyberian » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:18 am

Tab -
I just looked at that list.
It's pitiful!
No Puch, Sachs, Batavus, Suzuki, Mobylette, Solex, etc.

I see that a "moped" in TX doesn't need to have pedals.
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Tab » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:52 pm

Its almost all scooters and its a head-scratcher. This is all a result of the clamp down on pocket bikes. I tried to get them to look at the Ohio list, which is a tight list, but reasonable. They had no interest in it.
I think that they would rather not have mopeds in the state, and this is how they are doing it.
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby Cyberian » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:51 pm

Strange -
I tried to get NY State to use the Ohio list, which like you said, is reasonable.

NY State does have a list, but there is no hard copy anywhere.
The drill is:
"The DMV certifies a moped as a Class A, Class B or Class C limited use motorcycle according to top speed. The manufacturer requests the certification through the DMV Technical Services Bureau. Only a DMV-certified model of limited-use motorcycle can get a registration in NYS. The phone number for the Technical Services Bureau is (518) 474-5282."



http://www.nysdmv.com/dmvfaqs.htm#MOPEDS
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re: Scooter forum purpose

Postby steamboat » Sun May 07, 2006 5:21 pm

I find this interesting. The 1977 Mopeds shop which was started by one of the founders of Moped Army calls the Sachs Madass a moped, which I think does not have pedals. hmmm. Jim.
http://www.1977mopeds.com/store/product ... ucts_id=50
the MadAss is the first completely original moped design in a long time, and nothing is going to turn heads like this. The Sachs Madass is available!

We are very happy to be helping bring Sachs mopeds back to the American Public.

Features
*Front and Rear Disk Brakes
*Die Cast Alloy Rims
*Push Button starting with backup Kick Start
*4 Stroke Eviro-friendly engine
*Fully Automatic "twist and go" Transmission, or Four Speed Manual option
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