Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

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Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:59 pm

Looks like I'll be adjusting my clutch.

I installed a super-clutch from 1977Mopeds.com. It has three shoes.
Image
While I've been working on the engine, it seemed to be engaging ok. (RPMs go up, the back wheel starts to spin.) So I didn't give it much thought.
But I tried to go for a test ride today. With me on the bike... nothing happened. Not even a little. So I'm thinking adjustment is in order.

I found an older thread here about adjusting clutches, which kind of makes sense.
http://www.mopedriders.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8943&hilit=clutch+adjustment
That one kind of devolved into how to get a "second gear" effect, which I have no interest in at all.
But they did say loosening the springs is the way to get the shoes to engages at lower RPMs.

I wonder:
What is a reasonable RPM for an E50 to engage the clutch for normal street driving?
How many turns should a screw get when adjusting clutch shoe springs?


Exposing those adjustment screws is going to be a little invasive and time consuming. I'd like to do it in as few tries as possible.
Any insights you all could share are welcome! I'll let you know how things turn out.
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:39 pm

I got the clutch removed last night, and did some adjusting today.
The three screws were all at different tensions, so I tightened them all the way down, then backed them out 2 turns each.
With everything put back together, I tried it out. Now the clutch is engaging at 3k RPMs. Way too soon.
I think I'll turn them back in maybe 1/2 turn each and see what that does.

Update:
Took the clutch out, and discovered that 2 of the 3 screws had backed themselves out already. I haven't even gone anywhere yet! :evil:
I suppose I can lock-tight them, but I don't know what tension to use yet. I guess I'll spend some time thinking about it...
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:34 pm

I've got the replacement screws ordered. In the mean time, I'm still trying to figure out the best way to make adjustments.
Image

I was thinking number of turns out from full compression (like the carb idle screw). I'm also thinking maybe a torque value.
Assuming all three springs are identical, either should work I suppose. The trouble is coming up with the value before I lock-tight them.

Maybe for now, I'll just re-shim the bell, and put the old clutch back in...
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby codycowgill » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:12 am

Man that 77 clutch is a pain to adjust. I cut a bit off each spring as they were a bit too stiff as is then tried to adjust each shoe by number of turns out from bottoming out the bolt. Problem is that each bolt in mine bottomed out differently. Ended up going with a treatmetric clutch instead as it required no adjusting, just changing out springs.
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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:44 pm

Yeah, I'm thinking if I can't get the superclutch adjusted in a couple more tries, I'll try the trickmetric one from Treatland.
I think I'll try some kind of Ft/lb measurement for adjusting it. Still waiting for the replacement screws that are supposed to work better.
There's also a fuel issue I'm trying to track down. I may put the original clutch back in until I get that figured out.
One problem at a time, right? :lol:
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:34 pm

I got the new screws today. Taking the clutch apart, I noticed an extra washer in one of the shoes. :?:
Image

Still trying to puzzle out how to actually adjust this thing. No response to my request for advice from 77.
Even with the new screws, 77's website says I'm to use loc-tight to keep them in place.
I think what I'll do is put each screw in just far enough that it sits on the spring, loc-tight it there, and see what happens.
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Fri May 01, 2015 8:00 pm

Ok, here's what I done:

I have a small number of options on my drill press as far as spindle RPM. So I'm going to use the 1720-3100 RPM settings along with a "tool" I put together to test out the clutch.
Image
Image

The bolt and nut, along with some washers, fits really well. The lack of threads on the end of the bolt lets me fit it in the drill press.
Image
Image

For reference, here is a stock clutch at rest, with the shoes fully retracted.
Image

At 1740 RPM, the clutch is still closed. At 2340 RPM, the clutch is open. So that gives me a rough idea of what the aftermarket clutch should be doing.
Image

The aftermarket clutch at rest, and at 1740 RPM, stays closed.
Image

At 2340 RPM, the clutch starts to open, but not fully.
Image

At 3100 RPM, the clutch is fully open.
Image

So the aftermarket clutch seems pretty close at this point to the stock one. I've got it installed in the engine, and this weekend I hope to try it out.
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Thu May 21, 2015 2:53 am

Sadly, the bolts have backed out again despite the use of loc-tight. Sadly, no response from 77 to my request for support. :(
So, I'm going with a different clutch from Treats...
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Tue May 26, 2015 11:54 pm

Got my replacement clutch today! I've swapped out the medium tension springs for the low tension ones.
Image

My DIY clutch testing tool is ready...
Image

Below 2,000 RPM the clutch remains closed.
Image

Above 2,000 RPM the clutch opens.
Image

Without any adjusting screws, this clutch behaves more like the stock clutch than the last clutch I was using.
I'll give some time for the Loctite to set before I install it though.
Mike

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Re: Clutch Adjustment (aftermarket for E50)

Postby RebelRider.Mike » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:25 pm

Seems to work! I imagine the springs and shoes will need some break-in, but I did a test ride, and it works!
Now I can focus on getting my carb tuned properly.
Mike

1979 Puch Free Spirit
1987 Honda Rebel
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